how does my mix sound?

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kaylawise
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how does my mix sound?

Post by kaylawise » Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:28 am

wild rice
hulled millet
sesame seeds
pumpkin seeds
pealed rolled barley
rice puffs
kumat puffs

dried veggies:
broccoli
peas
carrots
cauliflower
sweat peppers
is there anything i'm missing or anything i should add? or even, something i should remove?
i will be mixing in their oxbow regal rat food as well.

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acapae_wolf
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Re: how does my mix sound?

Post by acapae_wolf » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:46 am

Sounds nice in terms of adding for more enrichment/ variety. Do you have a link which has the ingredients and nutritional analysis of the Oxbow? For an idea of what sort of quantities of the carb-rich ingredients vs oil-rich ingredients you'll be adding.

Are the ingredients in your veggie list all mixed up together, or are they separate? If they're mixed up don't worry about it, but if they're separate I'd leave out the peas. This is because it's highly likely that the commercial food you're using as a base has a fairly substantial amount of them anyway. Plus most rat foods tend to be pretty high in protein, and adding peas will push this up further. I'd also suggest potentially leaving the sesame seeds out of the mix. They're great, but they are very tiny and light and will almost definitely just end up at the bottom of the tub rather than properly mixing in. I feed sesame seeds, but I have them separately in a little pot and just sort of either sprinkle a pinch on fresh food, or stick them in directly at the same time as dry food, just without mixing up together first. But see how things look when you've got to that stage :)

Also, what's kumat? I've never heard of it, and google isn't bringing anything back.
Beri with all at Dandelion Soup
1 cat, 50-70 mice, 2x guinea pigs, 2x gerbils, 2x Syrian hamsters, 2x Russian hybrids looking for new homes ;)

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[cub]
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Re: how does my mix sound?

Post by [cub] » Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:03 pm

I think I've found the Oxbow Regal Rat: https://www.oxbowvetconnect.com/product ... bject=1547
As suspected it is a bit high in protein, but on the other hand it hasn't got any peas in it, so if the peas are already mixed in with the other dried vegetables you're adding, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

And the various grains in your mix will be a great addition as none of them overlap with the grains in the Oxbow (except the rice puffs, but more rice is no bad thing) so that will give the rats more variety. If you can easily get hold of corn (e.g. plain popping corn, or dried hominy) then that would also be a good addition, as it's another different grain that's not in the Oxbow.

I wouldn't put in too much pumpkin or sesame seeds though, as they're quite high protein and high fat, so lovely in smallish quantities, but you don't want anywhere near as much of that as you do the grains.
Poo-shoveller to: Calyn (NLA28).
Fondly remembering: Zephyr Mick Jagger (Edgeworth) the big lump, Din (NLA28), Zephyr Donovan (Phoenix), Xeltan, Lita (NLA32), Lia (NLA28), Zephyr Delanynder (NLA28), Falere (NLA36), Mirala (NLA36), Zephyr Opold, and Rila.

kaylawise
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Re: how does my mix sound?

Post by kaylawise » Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:48 pm

the peas would be seperate.in that case i think i will leave them out and keep the peas and use them as an occasional treat instead.
as for the sesames i can leave those out too. to be honest i dont like adding smaller ingrediants so thsts good to hear.
as for the kumat, i meant to say kamut. i apologize.

alright i will look for some corn to add and i will keep the pumpkin seeds low.

thank you guys!

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acapae_wolf
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Re: how does my mix sound?

Post by acapae_wolf » Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:57 pm

I've never heard of that either, but it looks interesting on wiki :)

If the link cub found is right you could add some of the peas. I'd probably do that over using them as treats, mostly because rats don't particularly rate them as a favourite and tend to drop them to eat later :lol: I often use squash seeds (including pumpkin) as treats though - they're a nice size for hand feeding.
Beri with all at Dandelion Soup
1 cat, 50-70 mice, 2x guinea pigs, 2x gerbils, 2x Syrian hamsters, 2x Russian hybrids looking for new homes ;)

kaylawise
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comments on this mix?

Post by kaylawise » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:36 am

its a lot like my other mix but with a couple things added in since i want to give my boys some good variety.

pearled rolled barely
buck wheat groats
hulled millet
whole oat groat
small amount of pumpkin seeds
whole wheat bran flakes
total cereal
small amount of roasted unsalted soy beans
died broccoli
dried carrots
small amount of dried peas
dried cauliflower
dried sweat pepper
coconut flakes
brown basmati ice
corn flakes
rice puffs
kamut puffs

does this seem nutritionally complete?are there any ingredients i should take out or make sure i only put a small amount of?
i'm kind of clueless so i would love your advice.

Note: Threads merged as they were on exactly the same topic.

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[cub]
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Re: how does my mix sound?

Post by [cub] » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:24 am

If that mix is being fed on its own, rather than mixed with a commercial food (e.g. the Oxbow Regal Rat you mentioned previously), then you may need to increase the amount of soybeans and peas in the mix, and possibly also add a few more nuts/seeds (e.g. hemp seeds, bits of walnut, etc.) depending on what "small amount" means. You will also either need to choose the fresh foods you feed carefully, or else use a vitamin/mineral supplement, in particular for calcium, copper, and vitamin D. Also, you can leave out the bran flakes as they're not nutritionally useful to a rat, especially not with all the other nice wholegrains you're giving them. Other than that the grain mixture looks good.
Poo-shoveller to: Calyn (NLA28).
Fondly remembering: Zephyr Mick Jagger (Edgeworth) the big lump, Din (NLA28), Zephyr Donovan (Phoenix), Xeltan, Lita (NLA32), Lia (NLA28), Zephyr Delanynder (NLA28), Falere (NLA36), Mirala (NLA36), Zephyr Opold, and Rila.

kaylawise
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Re: how does my mix sound?

Post by kaylawise » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:17 pm

okay so if i want to feed it on its own ill add a nice amount of peas and soybeans.
alright i will add nuts and seeds too. any particular seeds or nuts i should add? will any nut or seed work? if i add only hemp seeds am i good or should i add something else?

as for the vitamins and minerals, is the total cereal not sufficient enough ffor those?

if not, what fresh foods should i add to their diet? im willing to give them fresh veggies on the side a few times a week.

i apologize if it seems like im asking too many questions. i need someone experienced to "hold my hand" right now

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[cub]
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Re: how does my mix sound?

Post by [cub] » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:17 pm

kaylawise wrote:any particular seeds or nuts i should add? will any nut or seed work? if i add only hemp seeds am i good or should i add something else?
Hemp seeds are good, but variety is good too. If you have other nuts or seeds in your cupboards, those will be a lovely addition, but don't feel you have to go out of your way to buy all sorts of other seeds just for the rats. I don't know offhand of any nuts/seeds that are suitable for human consumption but not rat consumption, so I reckon they're all fine. (In moderation of course!) I personally feed hemp seeds and linseeds (aka flaxseeds), and then a bit of whatever else I happen to have in my baking ingredients cupboard.
kaylawise wrote:as for the vitamins and minerals, is the total cereal not sufficient enough ffor those?
I doubt it, for the following reasons:

(i) Presumably the Total cereal is going to be a small part of the mix (as it should be, since it's almost entirely made of wheat and a good mix needs much more variety than just one grain). I haven't run the numbers so I could well be wrong, but I doubt a small quantity of Total cereal as part of a much larger mix will provide all the vitamin/mineral supplementation required.

(ii) More importantly, it doesn't contain added copper, which is a trace mineral that often needs to be supplemented in rat diets.

(iii) While it does contain vitamin D, it doesn't contain all that much, presumably because the human consumers of Total cereal are expected to produce the rest of the vitamin D they need themselves by going outdoors and getting some direct sunlight. Rats, being indoor caged pets, get almost no direct sunlight; light through windows doesn't count because glass blocks most of the UV, and it's UV that's required for endogenous vitamin D production. Dietary sources of vitamin D exist so it is possible to create a rat diet that contains all the vitamin D necessary, but most rat diets need this to be adequately supplemented.
kaylawise wrote:if not, what fresh foods should i add to their diet? im willing to give them fresh veggies on the side a few times a week.
Rats should get some fresh vegetables most days anyway, even with a nutritionally complete dry mix. To feed without vitamin/mineral supplements, you need to do a bit more. Unfortunately the excellent post by neotoma that described her supplement-free feeding regime appears to have been eaten by the forum's autoprune. :( From what I can remember, it consisted of:

(i) For calcium, a chicken bone per rat each week, I think?

(ii) For copper, plenty of dark leafy green vegetables fairly regularly. Something like every other day?

(iii) For vitamin D, regular oily fish and/or eggs.

(iv) Plus other fresh foods too, for variety and other nutrients.

(v) Which adds up to just feeding a lot more fresh food in general. Most UK rat keepers feed a small quantity of fresh food alongside the main diet of dry mix; neotoma's rats got more like 50/50 dry/fresh, if I remember correctly?

Anyone else remember neotoma's feeding regime better than me? In fact, can anyone convince them to come back and post it again and get the admins to sticky it so we don't lose it? It was awesome.
kaylawise wrote:i need someone experienced to "hold my hand" right now
If you want to know more about rat nutrition and how to make up your own mix, I highly recommend you get a copy of The Scuttling Gourmet: http://www.nfrs.org/sales.html
Unfortunately it's only available from the UK, so you'd have to pay a bit more for the postage to the US, but I'm sure if you email the NFRS they can let you know how much that would be.
Poo-shoveller to: Calyn (NLA28).
Fondly remembering: Zephyr Mick Jagger (Edgeworth) the big lump, Din (NLA28), Zephyr Donovan (Phoenix), Xeltan, Lita (NLA32), Lia (NLA28), Zephyr Delanynder (NLA28), Falere (NLA36), Mirala (NLA36), Zephyr Opold, and Rila.

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