Is this mix ok?...

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Buzzwizz619
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Is this mix ok?...

Post by Buzzwizz619 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:30 pm

40% bananna brunch
6.25 % Reggie rat
5.2% Rye flakes
4.8% Barley flakes
6% Puffed rice
5.8% Bran
1% Groats
4% corn flakes
3.9% oats
3% Wheat a bisk

This makes up 80% of my mix and is what i am planning on using as my base (ive made like 25kg of this... got abit carried away lol)... my usual dry food tub holds about 10 scoops of food so my plan is to use 8 scoops of this base then make up the remaining 20% each week/ fornight with different ingredients.

5-10% will be protein which will be a combination of/or :-
2 different kibbles (burns and fish4dogs)
dried shrimp
egg biscuit
meal worms
soya flakes

the other 10-15% will be a combination of/or :-
- Dari
- locus beans
- canary seeds
- millet
- clover seeds
- bay leaves
- fenugreek seeds
- parsley stalks
- beetroot flakes
- pigeon mix
- pasta
- nuts
- dried apricots
- raisins/sultanas

Is this ok or should i add a extra 5% to the base so the "other" only accounts for 5-10% of the overall mix?... in addition to this they get daily veggies primarily spinach, cabbage, carrots, sweet peppers, peas,brocolli, couliflower, sweet corn and green beans as i buy these frozen and every 2 weeks i pick up something green and leafy like kale, spring greens or whatever else i find that looks green and leafy as a packet usually last 4+ days... and whatever different i can pick up from the reduced section when i drop on anything (the joys of working in a supermarket ;) lol ).

thanks amy

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[cub]
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Re: Is this mix ok?...

Post by [cub] » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:47 pm

I'm not an expert (especially not with volume-based Shunamite-style mixes :oops: ), but that sounds fine to me, though you may want to leave out the bran as it's mostly fibre and your rats should be getting all they need in their diet otherwise. (Humans should too, but we like processed grains a bit too much for our own good. :P )
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Buzzwizz619
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Re: Is this mix ok?...

Post by Buzzwizz619 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:17 pm

Thankyou :)... the bran is very fine flakes anyway so its probably going to all gather at the bottom of the bag and not really achieve much! i was expecting it to be more like cornflakes instead of dust lol i wont order it next time :)

Im going to try and accumulate different ingredients every few weeks so they are always getting new things and variety can improve month by month without having to spent anymore in one go lol... the £80 rat rations order nearly gave me a heart attack! lol


amy

Buzzwizz619
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Re: Is this mix ok?...

Post by Buzzwizz619 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:08 am

After much calculating my mix is comming out at:-

protein 13.48%
fat 2.38%
fiber 7.06%

This is just for the base (80%) without added protein or seeds and things, this seems pretty high in protein and low in fat :L

amy

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Re: Is this mix ok?...

Post by Pepperpots » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:22 am

Not sure about the protein, but the seeds will up the fat level. Tbh it looks like a pretty balanced mix to me.

Regarding the bran, my rats love porridge made with a mx of oats and bran. It soaks brilliantly.
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acapae_wolf
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Re: Is this mix ok?...

Post by acapae_wolf » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:16 am

Right, I will try and help but
1) although I work in percentages, we're talking in never lower than a 5% lump (if it's less I'm just like "handful of that" or "sling it in")
2) even without that, there is absolutely no point in working out things including decimal places. There is no set 'right' mix, as rats are omnivorous hunters/ scavengers and so the right mix for them; instead is very broad compared to working out a food for an obligate carnivore or a herbivore. Different mixes suit different rats in different set-ups, so a little bit of it is playing by ear. Therefore it's easier mentally to find what works best if you're less precise about it.

As said already, bran is just a bulk thing and not really at all nutritious. It's the outer husk of the cereal. It's great when it's left on in terms of how processed a grain is, because the layer under it is really nutritious. And because if it's left on the rats have a bit more of an enriching eating. However it in itself is worthless. It does soak up well in porridges, but it's basically empty calories so there's no benefit unless you're trying to get a rat to lose weight. If you've already added it to something I wouldn't worry, but I'd not bother again. You as a person will probably get more out of it because as said people in developed countries eat too many refined carbs these days :lol:

Re. base vs 'other', I would personally add some of the latter to what was your base mix. By which I mean the dari and millet (both starch-rich cereals, rather than an oil-rich seed) and the pigeon seed. I would also remove pasta entirely from the mix - people used to add it for variety, but then everyone realised it was making rats fat. Since it's much easier to get rats to gain weight than lose it, and their health is complicated enough anyway, I would skip it out. Then what is left will be very small seeds which don't mix up very well in large vats of food, and bits of dried plant. To which I'd add under 5% to your mix - my vague handful thing I referenced earlier.

Try instead to think of the HBB as your base, to which you're adding other things to. That should help brain-wise!

Starch-rich-grain-wise that would then give you:
rye, barley, rice, maize, oats, wheat, dari, millet
Which is a nice lot of variety, and easier to manage in terms of what is a constant and what you vary as an exciting extra :)

The protein level you have at the minute will be boosted by the reggie rat being in there. However the main thing to bear in mind is that there's protein in everything. Grains alone will give you a base protein level of 8-10% depending. What you're looking at is to balance the amino acids (noting that rats are said to have 10 essential amino acids like children to an adult human's 8 or 9). The same as people, this either means 'complete protein' in the way of animal products, or matching grains and legumes. The grain portion is covered, and there will be a small amount of legume (not looking it up, probably pea and soya, which is a weird one that is complete) in the RR and HBB. Because you're adding the reggie rat you've already gone some of the way in terms of adding a protein-rich food, because commercial rat mixes tend to be quite high in it. So that's what's tipping your percentages up.

Oil-wise I'd be more concerned though, as that's very low, especially at this time of year. With diet-culture people have a habit of universally regarding all fat/ oil as bad, but in reality it's vital for healthy functioning. You'll see the results of a diet low in fat in rats first in the coat and skin condition. The low levels in your mix are probably because the only oil-rich seeds you've listed in any of it are canary seeds, which isn't much at all. There's probably something in the pigeon mix, but it'll be in low amounts really. I usually aim for about 5% of the total mix being (mixed) oily seeds, although this often rises to about 7% in the winter (my house is quite cold). The 'protein foods' should bump it up a little for you, but not by much given with the above you'll only now need to add a tiny amount. Can you get hold of any hemp? That's a good seed to add in terms of a good oil profile while also being a fairly large grain so that it mixes up well. Sunflower seeds too. Or even just having a separate tub with small seeds in to scatter in the cages separately (they'll sink to the bottom if you're using tiny ones in such a large vat of food), or feeding the oil/ fat bit of their food with regular oil on fresh food (although that's harder to remember).
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Re: Is this mix ok?...

Post by Pepperpots » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:12 am

That was so much better than my reply!

Yes, I add a little bran to make my fatty feel full without the calories. Once I've used up this batch, I won't buy any more, as new diet has been successful.

Beri, would occasional nuts in shells and sardines help? Must admit, hemp/linseed has made my rats coats lovely and shiny.
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Re: Is this mix ok?...

Post by acapae_wolf » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:14 am

Pepperpots wrote:Beri, would occasional nuts in shells and sardines help? Must admit, hemp/linseed has made my rats coats lovely and shiny.
acapae_wolf wrote:or feeding the oil/ fat bit of their food with regular oil on fresh food (although that's harder to remember).
As in, it's much easier if your dry mix has a reasonable oil/ fat content in which you boost with occasional fresh things, rather than pretty much solely relying on the fresh. Using only oily fish with this mix would also be fairly problematic in terms of protein in the diet shooting up. I have fed rats using only fresh protein-rich foods before, but that was on the back of a dry mix with a much lower protein content then we're talking about here.
Beri with all at Dandelion Soup
1 cat, 50-70 mice, 2x guinea pigs, 2x gerbils, 2x Syrian hamsters, 2x Russian hybrids looking for new homes ;)

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Re: Is this mix ok?...

Post by Pepperpots » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:19 am

True. I've simplified by having 50% RR complete mix, then the other half shunamite type with HBB. That way I know they are getting a good variety of everything and some of my vits and mins are covered by the HBB.
Introducing the rat boys: Mr Pickles, Spider and Master George (chief trouble maker).
Flump the dieting hybrid hamster

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Re: Is this mix ok?...

Post by acapae_wolf » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:20 am

It is possible to do otherwise, but I was talking about the OP's situation. Since it's their thread they've started for help on their mix, I don't want to confuse them ;) Getting your head around making up your own mix for the first time is complicated enough without all the tangents!
Beri with all at Dandelion Soup
1 cat, 50-70 mice, 2x guinea pigs, 2x gerbils, 2x Syrian hamsters, 2x Russian hybrids looking for new homes ;)

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Re: Is this mix ok?...

Post by Pepperpots » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:24 am

Ooops! :lol:
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Buzzwizz619
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Re: Is this mix ok?...

Post by Buzzwizz619 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:05 am

Thankyou very much for your replies, it really is alot to get your head around as a newbie.... especially considering im not exactly good at eating a balanced diet myself! The scuttling gourmet has actually taught me a awful lot about thinking about what foods would be good for me too! lol...

The protein level you have at the minute will be boosted by the reggie rat being in there
When i was looking up the nutritional anaysis of the various grains i noticed that they all had pretty good protein levels... and i bunged in the Reggie rat as its what ive been using for the last few months as a base for a less adventurous shunamites mix lol it wont be added in future mixes i just wanted to use it up lol... I will only add a small amount of dog kibble/ shrimp/meal worms to make up for the 2 amino acids that the grains lack...
Can you get hold of any hemp? That's a good seed to add in terms of a good oil profile while also being a fairly large grain so that it mixes up well. Sunflower seeds too. Or even just having a separate tub with small seeds in to scatter in the cages separately
I can pick up some hemp seeds from asda tomorrow :D, i do have sunflower seeds however i am pretty generous with them at play time for training as they love them sooooooo very very muchly so i would rather keep them to a minimum in the mix... as they do tend to stick their head in the bag and steal a mouth ful if i take my eyes off them! clever little buggers lol ... im also going to try and dry out the pumpkin seeds after halloween so they can have some of them too :D.... will lin seeds boost the oil level too? (im assuming any human seeds that say the fat level is "high" on the chart thing on the front of the pack is oily, is that right? lol)

Thankyou very much for taking the time to write such a detailed reply :)

Amy

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Re: Is this mix ok?...

Post by acapae_wolf » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:40 pm

Buzzwizz619 wrote:Thankyou very much for your replies, it really is alot to get your head around as a newbie.... especially considering im not exactly good at eating a balanced diet myself!
I think most people on here put more thought into their rats' diets than their own :lol: Although I do sometimes nibble on rat mix if I'm free ranging and a bit peckish...
Buzzwizz619 wrote:
The protein level you have at the minute will be boosted by the reggie rat being in there
When i was looking up the nutritional anaysis of the various grains i noticed that they all had pretty good protein levels... and i bunged in the Reggie rat as its what ive been using for the last few months as a base for a less adventurous shunamites mix lol it wont be added in future mixes i just wanted to use it up lol... I will only add a small amount of dog kibble/ shrimp/meal worms to make up for the 2 amino acids that the grains lack...
That sounds like a good plan, yep. I have done similar in the past when I've been given small amounts of commercial mixes.
Buzzwizz619 wrote:
Can you get hold of any hemp? That's a good seed to add in terms of a good oil profile while also being a fairly large grain so that it mixes up well. Sunflower seeds too. Or even just having a separate tub with small seeds in to scatter in the cages separately
I can pick up some hemp seeds from asda tomorrow :D, i do have sunflower seeds however i am pretty generous with them at play time for training as they love them sooooooo very very muchly so i would rather keep them to a minimum in the mix... as they do tend to stick their head in the bag and steal a mouth ful if i take my eyes off them! clever little buggers lol ... im also going to try and dry out the pumpkin seeds after halloween so they can have some of them too :D.... will lin seeds boost the oil level too? (im assuming any human seeds that say the fat level is "high" on the chart thing on the front of the pack is oily, is that right? lol)
I would probably still add a small amount of oil-rich seeds to your mix as it is very low. However given free range options I'd just increase it a little rather than bringing it up to the usual amount. You could also very easily mix up the sunflower seeds with the hemp and feed some of each as free range treats rather than only the one option. Hemp seeds are big enough that you can hand feed them, and rats do find them really attractive. They're what I usually use to help teach rats to come when I call.
Beri with all at Dandelion Soup
1 cat, 50-70 mice, 2x guinea pigs, 2x gerbils, 2x Syrian hamsters, 2x Russian hybrids looking for new homes ;)

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