Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

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Siana
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by Siana » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:47 am

Like Rhian33 mentioned, the newer vet formulary manuals have higher dose rates for rats; the Exotic Animal Formulary (Third Edition) is one, and I believe the BSAVA Small Animal Formulary also has the higher dose rate, since that's what my vet often refers to, but I don't know for certain since I haven't read it myself.

For Dog Metacam, 0.5ml would not have been an overdose. The dose rate rage is .2mg - 1mg/lb (higher dose rate is the newer manual). So for Dog Metacam, if you were giving the highest dose, you'd give 0.59ml. If it was Cat Metacam, you could give up to 1.76ml. It is a large amount, but rats can tolerate a lot more than dogs or cats.

My vet tends to use mid to high range in cases of more serious pain, and lower range for things like sprains. She's never observed any adverse effects with giving the higher dose rates, and neither have I with my rats. I did have one boy on Dog Metacam that was having up to 1.45ml a day as palliative care for 3 weeks (he was a big boy). The only thing I observed is it made him a little sleepy.

Fennic, good luck with the surgery. I hope she does ok!

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Fennic
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by Fennic » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:29 am

Update: We got into the vets and the only vet on was the 20something who has never preformed a spaying. As much as I feel guilty saying no to the operation and waiting for the only vet who can do it in the surgery to come back from holiday. She said it's a tricky one and it's only a 50/50 she will make it. Which REALLY put me off her doing it. So shes back home now. The vet comes home tonight but is still on holiday until monday. They said keep an eye on her if she begins to bleed more they will call him and beg him to come in and do the surgery. She mentioned something about there could be a mass inside the womb and if there is there would be problems or something. I was stressing so I didn't remember all of it as I wanted to go through with the OP but concerned as I've already had a mammary tumor operation fail this year from yet another 20something at the practise. :\ claiming "its the first death from a mammary tumor at the surgery in 10 years" Yet today was quoted from this vet something to do with mammary tumors being high risk removals if I remember her saying right. :roll:

Note to Beri: I didn't check at Boots as I had Kiwi with me and its the other end of town, didn't want to drag her down there in a carrycase in this state.
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Siana
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by Siana » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:00 pm

Oh no. :( Is there another vet clinic that could see her, or is this the only place that's capable with rat surgeries in your area?

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Fennic
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by Fennic » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:07 pm

Unfortunately all 3 nearest surgeries he owns. I'm going to monitor her, I think if she defo needs the OP tomorrow he would most likely come in. He's a compassionate man, not in the business for the money sort of person.
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by acapae_wolf » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:26 pm

Oh no, I hate it when vets take badly timed holidays! Hopefully you can get her sorted soon :luck:
Rhian33 wrote:
acapae_wolf wrote:I wonder if that was a doseage for cat metacam?
One formulary that vets use say that 1ml of cat metacam is the correct dosage for a 350g doe as I've had a couple of vets wanting t prescribe it that high before.
Yeh, I thought it must have been for cat. I like to start it low and build up if I need to rather than starting high. Especially if it's late at night - as it invariably is :roll:
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neotoma
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by neotoma » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:31 pm

The most up to date maxiumum routine doseage I have for dog metacam (or loxicam - it's the same stuff) is 8 drops for a 400 - 500 g rat. That was from my exotics vet who is certainly up to date with the current forumlary in use in the UK (he just did and passed some high falutin cross-European recognised exotics specialist exam that seemed to require revision of everything ever).

One drop is about 0.03 ml, so eight is 0.24 ml.

That's the maximum routine doseage, i.e that I've been told to go up to in normal palliative care. In an emergency situation he told me to give up to 16 drops, which would be around 0.5 ml. However, that was a situation where we expected the rat to die following a paralytic siezure, and it was basically just emergency care to stop suffering while I drove 45 minutes to the vet for pts (and I actually gave 5, and the fuzzball recovered of his own accord by the time we got there :roll: ). I.e it was a dose to use when the consequences didn't matter. Whether this is that sort of situation is something only you can tell by looking at her - if pain relief is the paramount priority above any risk of side-effects, then a higher dose is indicated.

However, in any situation, my basic rule with metacam is to give the minimum likely to be needed, and then work it up if required (hence why 'dying' woozle only got 5 initially) - you can always increase a dose, but you can't decrease one. With obvious pain I usually start at around 4-5 drops in that weight range.

The other advantage of giving a slightly lower dose in one go is that the metacam doseage is calculated daily, but the effect does wear off after a while. So it can sometimes be better, in terms of keeping the pain covered, to give two lower doses than one big one.

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lilladysez
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by lilladysez » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:25 pm

How is Kiwi now, was she spayed yesterday? Texas was a pain in the bum after her spay and removed all her stitches out!
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Fennic
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by Fennic » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:44 pm

Aah very sorry had totally forgot to update. Been busy RL >< We didn't spay her, my usual vet checked up on her just today she hasn't bled since Friday. Shes been healthy and running around like her usual doe self. He said the bleeding could be due to the womb (doing something I forgot exactly) after the infection and that she seems fine. Shes got added spinnach to her daily dose of fruit/veg.
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Fennic
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by Fennic » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:38 am

It seems the pyo has returned after them injections shes minorly bloody down there. Will contact the vet tomorrow and have her spayed. I don't want this reoccuring throughout her life.
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by acapae_wolf » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:19 pm

To be honest I'm impressed that she's otherwise in good health after having a pyo for so long. Good luck for the spay, I hope she's still strong enough. When is she booked in for? :luck:
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Fennic
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by Fennic » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:28 pm

It had seemed to "dissapear" after the blood cleared up after the injections. As far as the vet was concerned she was all clear. I hadn't seen any blood in the bedding, hammocks etc until seeing her the other night with some minor drops. Can they just disappear without any blood or discharge for a while then return?
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by acapae_wolf » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:48 pm

No, they can't go and come back, just hide. Whether there's blood (or pus) or not isn't really a conclusive way to diagnose if a uterine/ ovarian problem has sorted itself or not. An example from the other POV is my Larka (who was electively spayed a couple of weeks ago) was already showing signs of uterine disease. But she was right as rain and definately not bleeding!

very complicated part of the body!
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Fennic
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by Fennic » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:32 am

Kiwi's been booked in for thursday for spaying. He took a urine test and said there was a lot of infection there. Shes still on the baytril as Spice is consistantly on it.
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debzratties
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by debzratties » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:32 pm

I would be having a word with the vet to see if the op can be brought forward, as with the symptoms she's had already and the length of time she's been like this now I wouldn't be wanting to hang around any longer. When we had Whispy spayed she only had a tiny bleed, 1or 2 drops at most but our vet wanted to operate asap, I trusted her judgement 100% and also knew from the replies I'd had on here when Daisy had vaginal bleeding that an immediate spay was the best treatment.

If you can't get the op brought forward maybe see if they'll give her a strong combo of abs before surgery, especially if she has a lot of infection going on, we've normally been prescribed a high dose of Baytril and Synolux/or Ceporex and tyr and get hold of the Spatone that Beri recommended as we used this on both our girls and it really helped perk them up. I was also advised on here not to give Metacam when my girls were bleeding, i'm not sure if your still using it but I would mention this to the vet also incase she needs to be taken off it before her op.

Good luck and hope it all goes well :luck:

Debz :dumbogirly:

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Fennic
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Re: Vaginal bleeding had 3 injections for Pyometra

Post by Fennic » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:57 pm

debzratties wrote: If you can't get the op brought forward maybe see if they'll give her a strong combo of abs before surgery, especially if she has a lot of infection going on, we've normally been prescribed a high dose of Baytril and Synolux/or Ceporex and tyr
I don't think I can get it brought forward, shes been extremely perky and she doesn't seem to have a care about it. Vet was fully booked with a fair few emergencies monday and tuesday, i'm not sure if he's in on wednesday and he's the only vet in the surgery whom can do a rat spaying hence my previous problem. I'm not sure what abs is, or Synolux/Ceporex or Tyr unfortunately. She is on baytril however due to another one of my does. She is also getting a lot of iron with spinnach and broccli added into her daily fruit/veg. Although can iron water have baytril mixed in? I had forgot to ask and only thought of it earlier in ASDA while taking a quick look for it.

debzratties wrote: I was also advised on here not to give Metacam when my girls were bleeding, i'm not sure if your still using it but I would mention this to the vet also incase she needs to be taken off it before her op.
Shes not on the metacam as shes been herself without complaint of handling, lethargy etc.
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